Tony Yousif’s journey from Section 8 housing to becoming the go-to advisor for major institutions navigating distressed real estate reads like the ultimate American success story. But this isn’t just the rags-to-riches narrative—it’s the story of how Tony leveraged relationship-building to win in a transactional industry.
While most brokers chase the next deal, Tony positioned himself as the “conductor of the orchestra,”navigating complex distressed situationsfor lenders with local market experts. His approach has been so successful that he hasn’t asked for a piece of business in over 10 years, yet his team valued over 1,500 properties and managed 92 assets last year alone. The secret? Tony farms relationships instead of hunting transactions.
The conversation reveals the profound difference between relationship brokers and transaction brokers—one builds a lasting business while the other pays bills. Tony shares his client grading system and why he fires toxic relationships, including walking away from $80,000 monthly retainers when respect isn’t mutual.
What’s particularly powerful is Tony’s philosophy on living as if you’re about to die and his nightly gratitude practice with his kids. He breaks down the three circles of life—business, friends/family, and self—and shares the deathbed advice that taught him to seek harmony, not balance. For anyone building a service-based business, Tony’s story proves that genuine relationships compound over decades, creating the ultimate competitive advantage that no amount of hustle can replicate.
Transcript
[00:00] Tony Yousif: And my father taught me this at a very young age. He says, if you commit something and you give somebody your word, that’s all you’ve got is your word. And if your leg gets in the way of executing on that word, you cut that leg off.
[00:20] Welcome to Offshoot, the Fight and Capital Podcast with host Kevin Choquette.
[00:25] Offshoot is a curiosity driven conversation that features a wide range of real estate business professionals.
[00:32] In each episode we unpack the knowledge, vantage point and domain expertise of our guests. Then we move beyond the facts and figures and dive into the personal habits and mindset which allow them to be high performers in their respective field.
[00:46] This podcast’s objective is supporting entrepreneurs, fostering relationships, and uncovering meaningful conversations that positively impact business.
[00:58] Foreign.
[01:01] Kevin Choquette: Welcome to episode 32 of Offshoot. My guest today is Tony Yousif, Executive Managing Director of svn,
[01:09] where he’s built a nationwide advisory and brokerage platform helping banks, receivers and institutional capital allocators of all varieties navigate their most complex real estate situations.
[01:23] Born to Iraqi immigrants who fled to America and lived on Welfare and Section 8 housing in the city of Chicago, Tony found himself working at a convenience store and borrowing a third of his now wife’s accounting salary just to survive.
[01:39] For two and a half years, he pulled 100 hour weeks before making his first $25,000 commission check.
[01:45] That grit was the foundation for building one of the most trusted names in distressed real estate.
[01:51] But the genius here isn’t just the grind, it’s the deep investment Tony’s made to relationship building.
[01:57] He doesn’t see himself as a broker,
[01:59] rather the conductor of the orchestra,
[02:01] sitting between the lenders and local market experts helping move distressed deals along to their highest and best use.
[02:09] Since 2008, he’s helped the likes of Wells Fargo,
[02:13] bank of America, Fannie Mae,
[02:15] Colony Capital and Oaktree navigate their troubled assets.
[02:19] Last year alone,
[02:21] his team valued over 1500 properties and managed 92 different assets across the country.
[02:27] The best part of this is that Tony hasn’t asked for a piece of business in over 10 years,
[02:32] and he’s not likely someone you’ve heard a lot about.
[02:35] All of this comes from relationships.
[02:38] Tony’s a farmer rather than a hunter in the world of real estate. While most brokers eat what they kill,
[02:44] moving from one deal to the next, Tony plants seeds,
[02:48] nurtures relationships, and harvests when the fruit is ripe.
[02:52] The proof of his success comes in the liberty he has to fire clients.
[02:56] Walking away from $80,000 a month because one relationship wasn’t mutually respectful.
[03:02] That takes serious cojones and is a luxury of only the successful.
[03:08] Listen into and behind what’s said as we cover topics that include how respect for his parents vision and commitment served as a core motivator.
[03:17] The difference between being a relationship broker versus a transaction broker and why one builds a business while the other may just pay the bills.
[03:25] Why grading your clients and firing toxic ones can free time for relationships that matter.
[03:32] The wisdom in allocating time to create harmony across competing interests.
[03:36] The benefits of striving to live as if you’re about to die.
[03:40] The Sabaler’s effect. How treating people right means they take you with them to their next employer and and give you another client.
[03:48] The art of saying no to opportunities and instead referring them to competitors without asking for a fee.
[03:54] And how that built Tony’s reputation.
[03:57] Why a rolling loan takes no loss and how banks extending and pretending looked genius through the last cycle.
[04:06] The nightly practice with his kids that names three things which they’re all grateful for.
[04:12] Tony’s journey from welfare recipient to trusted advisors for institutions managing billions in distressed real estate is a masterclass in patience,
[04:21] perseverance, and the compound value of genuine relationships. I hope you enjoy the podcast,
[04:33] Tony. Welcome to the podcast. Thanks for joining me.
[04:36] Tony Yousif: Thanks for having me.
[04:38] Kevin Choquette: Yeah, I think I was just reflecting. I think it’s 22, 22 or 23 years ago, we might have met at the Rotary Club in La Jolla.
[04:48] Tony Yousif: Yeah, those were fun days. Yeah, we did a lot of good stuff there.
[04:52] Kevin Choquette: It’s been a bit.
[04:55] Look, I always kind of start these things out with just asking you about your work at SVN or formerly AKA Spare Van Ness for the listeners, you know, what is it that you do?
[05:07] Tony Yousif: I know you’re.
[05:08] Kevin Choquette: I know you as a pretty exceptional,
[05:12] I’ll say, broker. I think that’s probably cheapening it a bit. But why don’t you. Why don’t you tell the listeners what it is you do at svn?
[05:19] Tony Yousif: Yeah, no,
[05:21] I think more relationship guy,
[05:25] kind of the conductor of the orchestra,
[05:27] I like to say. But I’ve. I’ve been part of SVN, formerly Spray Venice, since 2008.
[05:34] I got in right as the financial crisis was happening and some people thought, oh man, what bad timing. I thought it was excellent timing because I got to learn kind of dealing with financial institutions and turnaround and workouts and,
[05:49] you know, rehabs and asset management, et cetera, which is essentially what we do on a national basis, you know, nationwide basis.
[05:59] So I’ve been helping the likes of Wells Fargo,
[06:03] bank of America,
[06:05] you know, court appointed receivers,
[06:08] the SEC trustees,
[06:11] you know, large funds like, did a lot of work for Colony Capital during the great financial crisis and Oaktree and others helped them with some of their bad debt workout situations.
[06:23] In all my career, I’ve never represented a buyer or a borrower.
[06:28] Feel like there’s an inherent conflict when I’m helping the lenders.
[06:32] So when a lender has a situation in.
[06:36] Now I’ve worked in 46 of the 50 states,
[06:39] they call us and they ask if I have a SWAT team on the ground that can help them with valuation.
[06:47] Slash opinions on implementing a strategy in regards to either selling the note,
[06:54] appointing a receiver that’s through the courts,
[06:58] foreclosing the asset, maybe reinvesting some capital, turning it around and selling it for more, or foreclosing the asset and then just liquidating and disposing of it because it might be one that we just can’t put too much makeup on or enough makeup on, I should say.
[07:16] But that’s pretty much all I’ve done since 2008. And it was,
[07:20] it was a,
[07:21] it was a great time in 08.
[07:23] Took me probably about two and a half years, not till November of 2010 to finally make my first commission check.
[07:30] But yeah, yeah,
[07:33] 100 hour weeks,
[07:36] you know, over there in La Jolla,
[07:38] getting in earlier than anyone, staying in later and just,
[07:43] I don’t know, trying to prove to the lenders that I was going to be someone who could become their trusted advisor and partner.
[07:50] And yeah, it took a long time because, yeah, it was a tough time at that time.
[07:55] Kevin Choquette: Well, when I think of brokerage and I mean, I know that’s the broad umbrella, but just on what you just said,
[08:03] you guys sound like an advisor very much kind of a value add teammate. Right? Your traditional brokerage role,
[08:11] um, you’re looking for a listing or you’re looking for a tenant to do the tenant rep side or you’re looking for a property to lease up or in my role, you know, you’re looking for a financing.
[08:22] It’s, it’s a deal, right? Here comes the deal.
[08:25] I’ll advise on whichever side of the transaction I’m on.
[08:29] When it, when it monetizes, I’ll take my fee and carry on.
[08:33] You know, you guys sound like you’re very much in between the asset owner. And by asset I don’t mean the fee title, I mean the mortgage.
[08:44] You know, I should say it that way. You’re in between the lender and the marketplace. How did, how did, if I’ve got it right first, I guess tell me that and then if.
[08:52] If. So how did you guys get into that space that seems like. I know it as a receiver’s role, you’re obviously not doing that, but it sounds like you’re doing a lot of the same work.
[09:01] Tony Yousif: Yeah, so.
[09:03] So when I did get recruited back In May of 08,
[09:06] I told the managing director at Sperry Venice that it was probably going to take me two years before I made my first check. So I was aware of what I was getting into,
[09:16] reading about the RTC and SNL crisis.
[09:19] You know, I wanted to become someone that would be able to help these lenders and institutions,
[09:27] something that was more cyclical.
[09:29] And the way that I looked at the business was very different than your traditional broker, because most brokers are kind of hunters, right? They eat what they kill and then they go on to the next deal.
[09:41] Like you said, it’s just a deal. Right.
[09:44] I just didn’t find that sustainable.
[09:47] You know, I’m a very patient person that wants to create relationships that are at a point like today,
[09:54] I haven’t really asked for a piece of business for over 10 years.
[10:00] And the way I look at it is, is rather than hunting, we farm, right? We’re harvesters. We plant the seed,
[10:07] we nurture it, and that seed is the relationship, and we let it grow and don’t,
[10:13] you know, pick the fruit until it’s ripened. And the analogy I use all the time is,
[10:19] you know,
[10:20] I hated, was against and despised cold calling. I just felt like there wasn’t any EQ or emotional attachment,
[10:30] and you were just looking at every deal and every situation and client, in a traditional brokerage sense,
[10:37] as just a paycheck.
[10:39] And we came to the conclusion that, you know, we work harder, we work smarter, and we’re going to utilize the right resources in and around the country to help situational,
[10:54] you know,
[10:55] essentially situations for these lenders. And Wells Fargo being my first one that I started working with IN09. And there was a gentleman by the name of Jeff Reed. He ran remag, which is Real Estate Managed Asset Group back then.
[11:08] And I admittedly told him when we first met at the U.S. grant for a very early breakfast, I said, look, there are people that have much more experience than me,
[11:19] but no one’s going to work harder and smarter, and I’m going to bring in people that have a lot more experience than I am, that I do, and I’ll just conduct that orchestra, but you’ll be able to allow me to be that single point of contact, that intermediary between your team and mine.
[11:37] And he believed me and he actually helped me get in touch with asset managers at their bank in San Francisco, San Diego, Texas, all over and you know, the rest is history.
[11:48] We, we started getting in with U.S. bank and I started working directly with the FDIC City National Bank. We, we, I was there the day before La Jolla bank got taken over by one west and the FDIC just copying boxes of,
[12:04] you know, files being prepared for whoever did take them over to, to help them work through some of those assets.
[12:11] So you know, most receivers and equity receivership and chief restructuring officers are doing this, but we’re just kind of under the radar helping these lenders with, you know, valuations,
[12:27] what we call them as broker opinion of values or broker price opinions.
[12:31] And just last year alone we did over 1500 for special servicers and lenders and institutions to help them prepare for the worse. And then,
[12:41] you know,
[12:42] all along the way we’re helping them decide on what strategy is best to implement.
[12:48] Kevin Choquette: It’s probably worth going through a little bit of the architecture of this because not many people spend time on the underbelly, if you will, of these assets.
[12:59] So my view of a receivership,
[13:02] court appointed receivership and whether or not it’s full receivership or what’s the abc, something instead of bankruptcy,
[13:11] you can appoint somebody as like a actuary.
[13:16] Yeah, maybe.
[13:17] Well, we’ll just, let’s just stay with receivership. So I don’t get too far off the plot, but you know, those guys are appointed by a judge. They have a fiduciary duty to the creditors and all the equity holders to manage the asset on beh on behalf of the creditors,
[13:30] assignment on behalf of creditors, abc, Right. So,
[13:34] uh, that would be not a receivership, but just an assignment of the asset control. But in any event, the way that I understand both of those roles where you’ve got a, basically a firefighter coming in and saying, hey, this asset’s on fire, let’s protect it, see what we can salvage to pay back the loan holder.
[13:49] And if there’s any leftover, we’ll pay back the equity.
[13:53] They are coming in on a fee basis,
[13:55] oftentimes like an hourly fee basis, depending on who in the firm is putting certain amounts of time in at whatever hourly rate, much like a law firm would.
[14:05] My guess is that’s not how you guys work. But I’m curious, how does the business model come together relative to the other people in this space who do similar work?
[14:14] Tony Yousif: Yeah, I was fortunate. Back in 2008 or nine I joined the California Receivers Forum.
[14:21] And I met a lot of these receivers and at that time, and I’ve, people have heard me say this,
[14:26] I didn’t know what the heck a receiver was. I mean, I knew what Jerry Rice was for the San Francisco 49ers, but I actually thought that, that I was like, what are you guys talking about football for?
[14:37] And I got to learn what receivers do, the fiduciaries, you know, the court appointed, you know, trustees and all that and you know, they get involved with arbitration and all that.
[14:50] And luckily I had the foresight and I, you know, I don’t, I don’t give myself a lot of credit for a lot of things, but this one I do. I had the foresight not to compete with receivers and become a receiver because in 0, 8, 9 and 10, if you recall,
[15:07] brokers were very much struggling and a lot of,
[15:10] at other larger firms started getting into the receivership business just so they can get the property management and the brokerage. Yeah,
[15:19] there was an inherent conflict in that. You shouldn’t be brokering the deals that you’re supposed to be looking out for all parties.
[15:27] If you’re the court appointed receiver, you, you’re looking out for the borrowers, the creditors,
[15:32] everybody, right? And you, you have to be unbiased in the way that you’re involved. You shouldn’t be rewarded or monetized through the disposition of this asset.
[15:45] So that was the take I took and I was able to reward or help receivers get appointed through the lender contacts that I had.
[15:54] And in return they would then hire us to do the brokerage, the valuation.
[16:00] And even today, where I’ve grown other businesses where we do national property management,
[16:06] where we take over the asset for the receiver on behalf of the receiver.
[16:11] And luckily for me,
[16:12] you know, the receivers across the country are sending us business all the time because they don’t see us as a competitor.
[16:20] And so we’re, we’re essentially just helping execute the plan for those receivers and for the courts.
[16:26] Last year we got involved in a very large SEC fraud case where the SEC federal appointed receiver hired us to take over a bunch of properties that we’re still involved with.
[16:38] And it was great because we were able to help put this fraudulent investor in jail,
[16:45] which I love. Right. I mean, it’s like, look, if you’re ******** people over,
[16:50] there should be repercussions for that. I don’t care if it’s white collar, blue collar, whatever, right?
[16:55] So,
[16:57] you know, for us,
[16:58] we’re, we’re just a tool, I guess, for the receiver to help execute a plan.
[17:04] But you know, we’re getting involved with the lenders because they’re calling us when there’s a monetary default or especially now after Covid, there’s a lot of maturities happening.
[17:15] And so there’s a default maturity default. And, and the lender is thinking, should we extend the loan, should we modify, should we appoint a receiver? Because the borrower may not be putting any capital back into the asset.
[17:28] Let’s say you’ve got a 40% occupied downtown office building in Portland.
[17:33] I pick on Portland a lot because it has a lot of issues.
[17:36] But,
[17:37] you know, and, and,
[17:38] and the borrower is not putting in the capital. And if the lender waits a year, two years, three years, which is actually happening on several assets that we’re working on,
[17:48] the amount of deferred maintenance and capex requirements, once they do take over their asset is, is substantially higher.
[17:58] You know, so,
[17:59] so they have to decide, okay, you know, like right now we’re getting involved in a downtown Jackson, Mississippi deal and all,
[18:06] all the elevators are broken. And we found this out by touring the property kind of secretly. Right.
[18:14] And we then were able to report back to the lender, hey, this is in much more dire situation than you thought.
[18:23] Staff are leaving, the elevators are not working.
[18:25] You’ve got, you know, an 80% occupied building that tenants are going to be in an uproar. You’re going to need to get an ex parte emergency receiver appointed, which they’re trying to do right now as we speak.
[18:38] And once the receiver gets appointed,
[18:41] you know,
[18:43] our property management team and our local staff is going to take over and try to get their arms around the situation.
[18:49] Kevin Choquette: The business model though, just to get clear on that,
[18:54] you know, I, I understand everything you just said, which is I didn’t want to compete with receivers.
[19:00] Brokers are struggling. Receivers are getting paid on an hourly basis or some sort of fee basis.
[19:06] My guess here is that you are basically investing in the relationship,
[19:11] providing services, looking for a future liquidity or sale of some sort. And it’s on that basis that then you guys would get paid. You’re, you’re basically hunting elephants. No pay.
[19:22] And then you, you monetize something,
[19:24] you get paid.
[19:25] Tony Yousif: No, we’re get, we’re actually getting paid on all the valuation work that we did.
[19:30] So again last year we did over 1500 valuations and on average we’re getting paid $1500,
[19:37] you know, sometimes up to $5000 on,
[19:40] according to the complexity of the deal,
[19:44] sometimes down to $600 a report. It just matters on the relationship and how much business we’re getting,
[19:49] but that’s just on the valuation side. And again, we’re not doing appraisals. These are broker price opinions. And you know, the people in our industry, asset managers,
[19:59] everybody knows that they rely on those a little bit more or a lot more than appraisals. Yeah. Because it’s.
[20:06] And I’ll, I’ll, I’ll give some credit to a friend of mine at wintrust, Chris, who coined the term appraisals, or as was value,
[20:16] and they want as is. Right. So people on the ground doing the transactions, etc. So we get, we get paid on that.
[20:24] And then if we’re taking over the property, the property management fees, of course,
[20:28] any construction management, if we’re doing any leasing, of course we get leasing fees. And then the ultimate disposition is, is. Is where we get the big elephant pop,
[20:39] as you said.
[20:40] Kevin Choquette: Okay, cool.
[20:42] And what about. I’m just curious about this because I’ve been in the business long enough to suspect you come into this the prospective client who comes in and, you know, says all the right things and says, hey, you know, help me with this, help me with that, help me with this,
[20:57] help me with that. It kind of goes on and on and never really turns into a meaningful client.
[21:03] Tony Yousif: I love that. That’s.
[21:05] It’s funny because that’s happening right now, currently, and in this last two quarters.
[21:12] And this is something that I hope this resonates with other entrepreneurs and other people because it takes a lot of discipline as to what we did this year.
[21:22] And let me take you through it. So we began the year of 2025 with 62 clients,
[21:29] and those clients are Fannie Mae and,
[21:32] you know, Rialto and Wells Fargo, I mean, you name it. Large institutional clients. So 62 that come out of my office is a substantial amount of business.
[21:44] What we did at the beginning of this year is we graded each client on a one to five basis, one being the poorest, five being the best.
[21:53] And we looked at a monetary perspective. We looked at relationship, we looked at trust, we looked at what you just described as, I would say abuse. Right.
[22:06] Utilizing us and saying, oh, yeah, we’re going to give it to you. And, you know, 20 valuations become 100 valuations. And you provide a lot of this free work. And,
[22:15] and it never really amounts to anything. And so we went through each and every one of the 62 clients and we graded everyone. And there were a lot that we were proud to say, like Fannie Mae, the way that they treat us and the partnership, they’re.
[22:28] They’re a five out of five. You know, it’s just a.
[22:31] A great relationship. And, you know, there are several others, but there were 22 of the 62 that we graded at a one or a two.
[22:39] What I did,
[22:40] what I did is I physically went and met with each and every one of those clients that were a one or a two.
[22:48] And I. And I said to them, frankly, that you’re a one or a two.
[22:52] What that one or a two meant,
[22:55] and do you have the intent of becoming a 4 and a 5 and what that meant?
[23:00] And it was a. There were,
[23:02] again,
[23:03] some of the clients were offended.
[23:05] I’d say the majority of them were receptive.
[23:09] There were a few, I’d say four of the 22 that were apologetic and said, you know what, you’re right, we’ve used and abused this relationship. We’re going to make it up for you.
[23:20] And that was the intent. And the 16 to 18 others that didn’t have the intent of changing.
[23:28] We,
[23:29] we fired in a, in a. In a respectful manner.
[23:34] We said, you don’t share the same mentality that we do.
[23:38] You don’t see us as a trusted advisor or partner. This is not a vendor client relationship. Never was intended to be.
[23:47] And,
[23:47] you know, we walked away from one client that we had quite a few assets that we were managing,
[23:54] and it was essentially $80,000 a month.
[23:58] And we told them to, and we did it cordially. We gave them 30 days to find a replacement. And we just said, you know what? This is an abusive relationship.
[24:07] We don’t intend on sticking around.
[24:10] And it takes a lot because I’m the owner of this enterprise, this platform, and so that’s a lot of money that I have to try to replace.
[24:19] But what it shows to,
[24:21] you know, my staff and the people around me is that I’m loyal to them. I don’t want them to be involved in abusive relationships that don’t appreciate us as much as we appreciate them.
[24:32] And it gives a message, hopefully,
[24:35] you know, behind the scenes to other clients that we’re only looking to work with. People that are mindful are not these, like,
[24:44] you know,
[24:45] shark type funds that want us to do and deal in the gray.
[24:51] We deal in the black and white, honest, honorable. And, you know, that’s just the message that we want to give to, you know, every institution out there.
[24:59] Kevin Choquette: I dig it.
[25:01] A friend of mine, I was talking to him about this, and he was, you know, getting a little esoteric or kind of woo on this, but is sort of saying like at some level,
[25:12] relationships are about energy. Right. And I’ll put in this energy to you and what you’re up to in support of your vision and your mission.
[25:22] Um,
[25:23] but you know, there’s, there’s an expectation here that if I’m doing that, then when the time arises that you’re able to do the same for me and we can have that kind of synergistic relationship.
[25:35] You might do the same. I love that you had the.
[25:38] Tony Yousif: Well, I agree with that, Kevin. I mean,
[25:40] you know, you in, in a, in a more simple and not to be offensive, if any way that I am here, but like any good marriage,
[25:48] you know,
[25:49] you have to. Or any good friendship, if I’m giving you my all and you’re not putting in the same effort.
[25:56] Well, that’s why divorce. I mean, you know, to me it’s like my relationship with my wife,
[26:01] like we put a lot of effort into one another and it’s about being supportive and being honest and communication.
[26:08] If somebody is frustrated, it’s communicating right away and being open minded and frank to one another. And to me,
[26:17] a good relationship is one that has to deal with equal effort. So I absolutely agree with your friend.
[26:26] And whether it’s a friendship, a relationship,
[26:30] a love interest or business,
[26:33] I think you gotta look at it the same way. It’s a, it’s a give and take, right?
[26:38] Kevin Choquette: Yeah. No, I agree, but I. Kudos to you for having the balls to fire your clients. I think that’s really a mark of enlightenment, to be honest.
[26:47] And it clears up all this space to get rid of 14 or 16 of them. With 14 or 16 of them, that’ll show it the other way. Whereas, like, hey, we, we just got a new partner.
[26:57] These guys are going to help us, really help us get to the next level.
[27:01] Tony Yousif: Yeah, and that’s the thing. These guys, I was showing them, we,
[27:04] you know, my, my, my guy, Michael Watson, he’s essentially the, the word that you taught me this week was intrapreneur.
[27:14] And he’s, he’s essentially COO of the. Our entire platform.
[27:19] He’s been with me since 2017. He’s going through the executive MBA program at SC.
[27:24] You know, brilliant guy. And you know, he’s constantly,
[27:29] you know, overseeing and helping us in terms of growth and you know,
[27:36] matrices and he’s utilizing AI and all these ways to monitor this stuff. And he showed me the amount of hours and time that we spent on one of these clients and I presented that to them and they Essentially,
[27:51] their jaw dropped onto the floor because they had no clue that they abused us this much.
[27:57] And that was one of the four that responded, positively apologetic.
[28:02] And it’s, you know, to me, it’s like,
[28:05] look, all of us,
[28:08] I think in today’s day and age,
[28:10] we’ve got so many external pressures of, you know, for those who are husbands and fathers and mothers and. And then working and owning business, it’s like a lot.
[28:22] So to be able to monitor what you’re doing and what you’re getting out of it is almost impossible because we’re just running each day on a hamster wheel constantly, Right?
[28:33] So to go back and reflect and have these honest conversations, whether it’s with business partners or relationships, sisters, brothers,
[28:43] wives, husbands, whatever, and just say, look, this is. This is what I think of this relationship. Let’s have an open conversation. And this is what I expect more out of it.
[28:53] And maybe these are the things that I’ve done that’s wrong,
[28:56] but let’s have an open understanding, I think, is it. It takes a lot.
[29:01] Because last year I. I said to myself, I. I don’t want to have any toxic relationships anymore in my life, whether they’re personal or business.
[29:12] Because any of those, like you said, just one. One relationship can feel like 20,
[29:18] you know, because it’s constantly just.
[29:20] It’s like a leech, right. Sucking blood out of you every time you talk to them. And you. You cringe every time they reach out.
[29:27] Because it’s not rewarding. It’s not. It’s not something where you feel like they’re putting in the same effort that you are.
[29:33] Kevin Choquette: Yeah, but the thing you just said that I think is spot on. And we’re refining a new core value around communication because I’m starting to see how critical it is is stating your role.
[29:45] Right? Because,
[29:47] like, I’ll go with your language a little bit. I don’t.
[29:50] This will be a stretch, but, like, if it’s an abusive relationship, there’s usually two parties to it, right? And so you get into that dialogue and. And here it comes again,
[29:59] and you sort of just roll over and you roll over and you roll over and again, kudos to you to first to stand up and say, hey,
[30:07] need to address this in the way that it’s like showing up for me,
[30:11] here’s the role I played,
[30:13] right? But this is what’s happening, right? And when you do that, I think when you really come to the table and say, hey,
[30:20] like, A, I need to get really clear with you, B, this is the part I played in this. But C. We’re going. We’re either going this way or we’re going that way.
[30:27] It makes it really clear for the person to go, okay, I understand what we were doing together.
[30:32] And then I’ll respond as follows.
[30:35] Tony Yousif: Yeah, I mean, look, it’s. It all comes down to the fact that time is finite and you only have so much of it to focus on,
[30:42] you know, select things. And. And again, 2010, Tony wouldn’t be speaking like this, because I was at a point I was desperate. Right.
[30:51] I was. I was working at a convenience store. None of my clients knew that I was. I mean, I remember one day I walked in,
[30:58] or I was behind the register at a convenience store, and a client or a customer walked in and they heard the.
[31:03] The typical bong, bong, you know, And. And I was on the phone with one of the heads of Wells Fargo. He’s like, oh, are you at a convenience store? I said, yeah, I just walked in to get a bottle of water.
[31:12] But he, you know, I told him several years later that I was actually working.
[31:16] Kevin Choquette: Working at the store.
[31:17] Tony Yousif: Yeah, yeah. And I just had to. And I wasn’t. It wasn’t about being selective back then. It was like, okay, who’s willing to listen to my story and. And pay me?
[31:27] Kevin Choquette: Yeah.
[31:28] Tony Yousif: You know.
[31:29] Kevin Choquette: Yeah,
[31:29] let’s go back, because you. You at the beginning sort of said, and the rest is history. But, like, give me an opportunity to understand what you’ve done since I knew you in La Jolla.
[31:41] And maybe also the listeners, like,
[31:43] as I understand it, the history is pretty significant.
[31:46] Like,
[31:47] what. Where. From where you started to where you are. What’s that journey feel like? And. And what have you actually accomplished?
[31:56] Tony Yousif: Yeah. So I’ll take you back a little bit further. So I come from an immigrant family,
[32:02] only one that was born in the United States of, you know, two older sisters that were born in Iraq were. I’m half Armenian, half Chaldean, and for those who don’t know what a Chaldean is, it’s the language of Aramaic, which is Babylonians, you know, Christians from Iraq.
[32:17] And we fled due to war and. And came to America,
[32:23] to Chicago.
[32:24] Parents essentially had to start all over.
[32:28] It was fascinating. I. I spoke with my kids about how strong the Iraqi dinar was back in the 70s. It was three American dollars to one Iraqi dinar back in the 70s.
[32:39] And now 100 dinar, Iraqi dinar is equivalent to seven American cents.
[32:49] Oh, wow.
[32:50] So it gives you a sense of how things changed. And there was such a large brain Drain. You know, my parents being Christian, they had to flee because of prosecution, etc.
[33:00] But they came over here.
[33:02] They,
[33:03] you know,
[33:05] essentially became welfare recipients. We went under section 8. We lived in the ghettos of Chicago. And then, you know, they left Chicago in 85 because Iraqi people weren’t used to seeing white things that were cold coming from the sky.
[33:21] So,
[33:22] you know, they said, let’s go to San Diego. And northern Iraq, where they’re from, is very similar to San Diego. It’s not,
[33:28] you know, everybody thinks there’s just camels and desert, but it’s very arid and known as the Fertile Crescent, right?
[33:35] Mesopotamia, all that. So they came here and you know, essentially became entrepreneurial because it was a matter of survival, right? And I remember in 09,
[33:46] not making any dollars, my broker who brought me to Sperry Van Ness was like, I don’t understand, Tony. You’re here well before everybody,
[33:53] you’re here well after.
[33:55] I said, look, the moment I rest on my laurels or become a little lazy or expect some entitlement or privilege,
[34:04] you know, that’s the moment I’m essentially spitting on generations faces, right? The parents that sacrificed and gave me the opportunity to come and live the American dream.
[34:15] That is what fuels me. And I said, you put me in front of an Ivy Leaguer or anybody else that maybe had a silver spoon, I’ll, you know, essentially eat them up, right?
[34:25] And, and that’s the energy that has, has, has driven my fuel from day one.
[34:31] And,
[34:32] you know, had no connections or ties to banking.
[34:36] Um,
[34:36] essentially in 2008, when I saw all the stuff that was happening with Lehman Brothers, et cetera, et et cetera,
[34:43] I said, I, I want to do more than just be a broker in San Diego. Cause it was, you know, this city is essentially over brokered and there’s a lot of competition and not a ton of velocity in terms of sales.
[34:56] So I saw the writing on the wall actually back in 0506 with a lot of the subprime stuff that just didn’t make sense to me.
[35:04] I saw these loan officers that were,
[35:06] you know, and when I started in the business, I, I, I started on residential loans. And I hated it because the broker I first started with,
[35:16] you know, was essentially trying to get me to do subprime lending. And I saw that like your typical American is going to choose to pay the cheapest rate.
[35:27] And what that did is it just brings up more interest on top of the principal. And no one was going to ever catch up with subprime lending. So in oh, 5 and 06.
[35:36] I realized that this was going to be a big bubble, it was going to be a big issue.
[35:41] And I confronted the broker at the time, I said, I don’t understand this borrower has 730 credit score.
[35:47] We should be putting them in a conventional loan for their home.
[35:51] And he looked at me and he said, you idiot, we only get a point if we do that, but we get,
[35:55] if we put them in a subprime loan. So I started to learn about the, the, the greed of Wall street and you know, institutions that, that didn’t look out for,
[36:07] you know, the best interest of the client. They were looking out for their pocketbook. And so that’s when I started reading about the Resolutionary Trust, you know, RTC days and SNLs and I, I really thought that there was a bubble that was swarming and,
[36:23] and at that time I sold my parents home.
[36:29] They had split a home with their daughter.
[36:32] It was 06. I got out before the bubble had burst just because I saw what was going on. So essentially I was learning about cycles and things and had no contacts and connections and was able to convince Wells Fargo by bringing them know, high Net Worth Individuals in 0809,
[36:53] you know, to, to, to trust me to help them with, with their situations.
[36:59] And you know that, that like I said went into US bank which we did a ton for. They bought first bank of Oak park which was six different banks with a loss share agreement with the fdic.
[37:10] Did very well. I loved working with the US bank folks, very real estate centric. Their asset management team really knew what they were doing. And then you know, we got in working with the FDIC and then once the banking stuff was slowing down and that was right around 2012,
[37:27] I started working with Colony Capital and Oaktree Slash the Ball who had acquired a lot of loan pools and they were working out their situations and we would for colony Capital.
[37:41] From 2012-20 we took over and turned around and sold 200 assets just for Colony Capital throughout the country.
[37:52] And that was in Cook County, Chicago to New York to,
[37:55] you know, you name it and it was retail and multifamily and,
[37:59] and all that.
[38:01] And then we started working with the special servicers.
[38:04] The property management company that I own and run,
[38:07] you know, 100% of it was, was named it, it was established as Compass Rock and they.
[38:15] Compass Rock was the company that took over Stuytown which was I think like 11,000 units in New York for Fortress CW Capital and Blackstone bought it for I think $5 billion.
[38:28] And I own that company and my controller,
[38:31] you know, came from prologis. And I’ve got people that are ex CBRE and xjll and,
[38:40] you know, we’re asset managing and helping a lot of these banks and institutions with their situations. And,
[38:47] you know, I saw that this in industry was long at the tooth. I thought in 2019, before COVID we were already nine years into a cycle of appreciation and one that was found founded on,
[39:03] you know, artificially low interest rates.
[39:06] And it’s a controversial opinion, but I feel like the industry became addicted to low interest rates and underwriting wasn’t really important.
[39:18] You know, and people back in 2018 and 19, I was warning about multifamily just kind of overinflating and becoming unsustainable from a renter standpoint,
[39:29] because everybody was underwriting these things to increasing rents,
[39:34] reducing costs, and keeping interest rates at near 0% levels forever.
[39:39] And I was just like that. That, that just can’t be forever. Right? Then Covid happens and the US government prints and installs tons of money into the system. And I thought that the situations became even worse and more exacerbated.
[39:56] And as you well know, in 21 and 22,
[40:00] a lot of the fundamentals were thrown out again because there was just so much money that was put into play.
[40:05] Kevin Choquette: That’s right.
[40:05] Tony Yousif: And people, yeah, people were just doing a ton of deals. And here we are in 2025,
[40:11] I’m dealing with a ton of fraud,
[40:13] a ton of deals that are going sideways because,
[40:17] you know, everybody got under this mentality that,
[40:20] you know, you buy a deal, you do a deal, you originate a deal, and two years later, whether you execute a plan or not, for the most part, somebody was going to pay.
[40:30] Kevin Choquette: That’s right, yeah. Yeah.
[40:32] Tony Yousif: And this is not the case anymore. It’s fundamental underwriting. Again, from an institutional standpoint, there’s a really good book.
[40:40] Kevin Choquette: Edward Chancellor, the Price of Time. And he goes back into previous economic cycles, previous central banks,
[40:47] previous bubbles,
[40:50] bank of England being a big one,
[40:53] you know, for 40 years.
[40:55] And we can use this as our pivot to what sort of market,
[40:59] what you’re seeing in the market now and where you see opportunity and Hazard.
[41:05] What, 40 years. If you’re in the game, generally, you’re in commercial real estate now. There’s cycles and there’s risks. And I don’t want to mute either property levels or market risks or macro risks, all of which can blow people out.
[41:18] But if interest rates are dropping for 40 years and cap rates are moving more or less,
[41:24] it’s not exactly true to say that cap rates move in parallel with interest rates, but there’s some correlation.
[41:31] Basically, if you were in the game buying things,
[41:34] holding them and then reselling them. Because everybody’s running a net present value on the future cash flows based upon the current discount rate. And that discount rate’s dropping as inflation is pushing rents up.
[41:45] Like,
[41:46] dude, everybody’s been killing it for a long, long, long, long time.
[41:50] Feels like we might be in a different world where $50 trillion of US debt is coming and our ability to service it is becoming a little questionable. We’re seeing credit ratings on the US debt going down.
[42:03] I don’t know. What are you guys seeing now? Here it is, 2025.
[42:09] Tony Yousif: Look, I’ve been known to be an alarmist and I don’t mean to be.
[42:15] I’m not the sky is falling guy. All I am is someone that communicates what I’m involved in and what I’m seeing. I’m just telling my perspective on,
[42:27] you know, being in a unique chair.
[42:30] I am very blessed and grateful for the fact that I’m dealing with agencies. I’m dealing with larger and regional banks. I’m dealing with,
[42:42] for the most part, all the special servicers that are backed by,
[42:46] you know,
[42:48] bondholders. And I’m dealing with funds like the Blackstones of the World and others. And then I’m also dealing with bridge lenders and I’m doing it on a national basis on all asset types.
[43:01] We’re even dealing with residential,
[43:03] you know, single family residential,
[43:06] broken construction deals.
[43:08] I mean, I’ve got such a unique seat into the world of real estate that it’s hard for me to not be opinionated. Right. Because we’re valuing so much real estate throughout the country.
[43:23] We’re talking about large portfolios and strategy and issues that happen well before the rest of the market is affected by it. And I’ll take for one instance when I was.
[43:39] I’m now the ex co chair of the Special assets forum for CREFC.
[43:45] Last year was my last year and in 2021 I was on stage warning the industry that insurance was going to be a huge issue.
[43:55] And people looked at me like I was crazy. Right.
[43:59] And here we are now you’re dealing with insurance inflationary costs to the extent of like Georgia. I had my friend call me, he says, man, you were, you were so right.
[44:10] You know, my, my home insurance has just gone up 60% and that’s just home insurance. Right.
[44:16] When we’re dealing with taking over multifamily or Affordable housing or an office deal in,
[44:23] you know, Houston or Florida.
[44:26] You’re talking about insurance premiums and costs skyrocketing 200, 300%.
[44:34] And that is affecting NOI.
[44:37] It’s, it’s a fixed cost that you can’t do anything about. And you know, if you’re high net worth, maybe you self insure, but majority of investors cannot do that. And then.
[44:47] Kevin Choquette: Yeah, there’s very few, Very few.
[44:50] Tony Yousif: Yeah, if you’re a financially regulated institution, you’re required to have insurance.
[44:55] And so in 2022, I asked CREF C to put together a risk,
[45:02] you know,
[45:03] kind of a committee that discusses risk and insurance. And we met, I don’t know, four or five times. And the ultimate,
[45:15] what we learned is that insurance is a for profit game. That’s it. And we didn’t learn that, but it’s essentially,
[45:21] you know, these insurance companies are not the most regulated.
[45:25] It’s been for profit. That’s why they’re so large. They make tons of profit.
[45:29] And you know, they’re going to look at not only underwriting to your state and your local market, but they look at insurance as a global factor.
[45:38] So, you know,
[45:39] if there are fires in Africa,
[45:41] that is going to affect what is happening in California from a, from a global standpoint.
[45:47] So it was something where it became a kind of a conundrum.
[45:51] And because I’m so involved in so much, I get to have this unique seat that helps me do my best to predict.
[46:01] I’ll be humble enough to say I’ve been wrong several times,
[46:05] especially how Covid played out because I didn’t expect the US government was going to print that much money. I think that they use the sledgehammer when they should have used scalpel.
[46:20] Kevin Choquette: Yeah, it’s like 27% of the money supply is from COVID Yeah.
[46:25] Tony Yousif: And,
[46:25] and there was a ton of fraud with ppp.
[46:28] I mean, it’s going to take us years to find out how much money was just given for no reason at all. Right. To some of these operators.
[46:37] And when you, when you, when you start just printing money and giving it out. So,
[46:41] you know,
[46:43] I guess with lack of thought,
[46:45] there are going to always be bad actors.
[46:48] And we’re starting to see that with underwriters and loans that were made during that time,
[46:56] you know, where, where there were cooked books and rent rolls that weren’t real and you know, inflated values and,
[47:04] you know, that were never worth that, that amount. And now here we are in 2025 with interest rates that have gone up and I don’t see a clear,
[47:14] I don’t see interest rates moving down anytime soon. That’s just my opinion. And it, and that’s a longer conversation. I think, you know, you’ve got a residential world that’s kind of broken right now, especially for the younger generations that just can’t get into home ownership.
[47:31] You know, the cost of, cost of just lifestyle and living is so disproportionate to,
[47:40] you know, what people’s incomes are, income levels.
[47:44] So if you lower interest rates, my theory is that people are going to refi or start selling homes again and you’re going to see already inflationary values on homes, in my opinion, just start skyrocketing once again.
[47:59] And so that’s the, I guess the, the issue that Powell and the Fed have found themselves in.
[48:06] You know, the system is essentially broken.
[48:09] And so you’ve, you know, you’ve got all these banks and everybody is hoping for interest rates to lower.
[48:15] And I, my response is, okay, let’s say they lowered at 100 basis points.
[48:19] Is that going to really affect the fundamental issues with downtown Houston office buildings and downtown Portland office buildings and, you know, office buildings in the Loop of Chicago and other places where you just don’t have demand?
[48:36] It’s not an interest rate issue.
[48:37] It’s, it’s other fundamentals as well.
[48:41] Kevin Choquette: Do you think?
[48:43] I mean, I’d love to hear some of this specific stuff you guys are seeing, but I get the sense that like, you, you work in the er, right? Kind of like,
[48:52] yeah, you’re not an ER doc, but like you’re, your worldview is clearly going to be colored by the fact that, you know, when the phone rings, it’s less likely than it is in my world to be somebody who’s saying, hey, I have a vision for this, you know, low rise 1960s apartment building that’s got ocean views.
[49:15] We can scrape this thing, buy, right, build a tower, you know, get $4,000 a month rents. It’s like the visionary side of what’s available in the real estate development world.
[49:27] Kind of where I hang out,
[49:29] where you’re seeing you, you’re sort of like the undertaker.
[49:33] Like, not necessarily that the thing’s dead, but like it needs attention.
[49:38] So how does you think,
[49:40] like,
[49:41] I get it, we only have like one set of eyes into the marketplace. And that’s why marketplaces are kind of remarkable. But how much do you think that’s coloring your,
[49:50] your worldview of, of what’s opportunity, what’s, what’s the positive drift to the bulls in the market versus what’s the threat? What’s the Bears like?
[50:01] Tony Yousif: No, I understand. Look, I, I don’t blame the world for always having that opinion on what we do, but, you know, this is, this is where there’s a misunderstanding. Is that,
[50:13] sure, we’re in the ER at times,
[50:15] but I would, I would essentially kind of coin us as more of a,
[50:22] A rebuilder. Right.
[50:24] We’re using sometimes,
[50:26] you know, parts to, to save because we’re,
[50:30] we look at every single situation as can we save this patient? Right. And,
[50:35] and, and, and get them to a point where they’re healthier than they used to be. The problem is this, is that we’re seen as kind of the undertaker because we’re having to deal with actual fundamentals.
[50:47] Again,
[50:48] foundational,
[50:49] you know,
[50:50] was this real estate from an origination standpoint, was this real estate ever going to hit the pro forma that the originator and the borrower had put in place?
[51:01] And there’s a lot of times where we say that’s the fundamental issue, is that no one was looking at the fundamentals,
[51:08] no one was looking at this as this is clearly going to find a path to this better, highest and best use.
[51:16] And a lot of times where we are different is we look at every single asset not only in its as is, but what can we do to capture and mitigate the losses, if not create value?
[51:31] For instance,
[51:32] there was a large land deal that we took over for Oaktree and Sabal it during the great financial crisis, and they just wanted to put a sign on it and have us.
[51:42] I think they acquired it for like 6 million.
[51:44] They wanted us to put a sign on it, it was in West Palm beach,
[51:48] to, you know,
[51:50] sell it for roughly around 9 million because there was appreciating value.
[51:54] And we convinced them to hire us to do two years of site planning,
[51:59] hire engineers and deal with the city and the municipalities to create a ton of value, where two years later, we were able to sell it for $25 million.
[52:11] So we, we’re. We are unlocking value if there’s value there. The problem I see is that I think we were dealing with a market that looked at, you know, this office building that they thought they were going to convert into multifamily.
[52:27] And they didn’t really look at the fact that the floor plate and the plumbing and the engineering and the demand,
[52:34] you know, which is important to ask is like, okay, in the end, let’s ask the first question. Does anyone want to live in this downtown, whatever. Downtown,
[52:42] right before we get into the engineering and the cost.
[52:45] And so, you know,
[52:48] I am kind of fatigued and tired of looking at pro formas and all these pie in the sky. And this is a broker saying it, right?
[52:55] I look at all these pro formas and these Argus models and I’m like, this never made sense.
[53:02] But if it does,
[53:03] let’s come up with a path according to the lender.
[53:07] You know, there are some lenders in special servicing and cmbs that according to Remic law, they cannot renovate and do whatever. But if it’s a bank,
[53:16] if it’s a fund like Colony if or oak tree, hey, if you’re going to spend $2 to make $6,
[53:23] let’s do it.
[53:25] And here’s the plan from a localized standpoint, but we do that all the time. It’s, it’s, it’s, you know, taking it into the surgery room to, to make it better.
[53:34] But most of the time it’s like, this is a tough asset.
[53:38] You gotta put makeup on the pig, as they say,
[53:41] and then take it out and dispose of it for somebody else to take on, right?
[53:46] Kevin Choquette: So the things that you’re seeing now, are they the result of some level of failed execution at like the individual asset play? Which is to say maybe it was poor underwriting, maybe it was pie in the sky pro forma from the borrower or sponsor and you know, his vision of what could happen.
[54:09] Maybe it was a misunderstanding of costs, but like they are atypical,
[54:16] not indicative of a macro trend. They’re one off mistakes like, which is to say maybe a natural function of a real estate market. There are winners and then there are losers.
[54:25] Or are you seeing a more macro cascading sort of trend that portends broader market dysfunction and broader,
[54:39] I’ll just say storm clouds, more storm clouds in the future.
[54:42] Tony Yousif: Look, the answer is yes. It’s not general, right? So there are, there are both of those situations and even more. Like for instance,
[54:51] the drastic difference between now and the great financial crisis. And everybody always asks me, is this the same as the great. This is nothing like the great financial crisis. And here are the reasons.
[55:01] In 2009,
[55:03] and you even recall this, in San Diego,
[55:05] for instance,
[55:07] the basis of most apartment complexes was reset to a point where we hadn’t seen for a long time. We were selling and seeing apartment complexes being sold for $80,000 a unit, $110,000 a unit, where today those same complexes are 350,000 a unit.
[55:26] So in 2009,
[55:29] we were at trough levels.
[55:30] And then through Ben Bernanke’s programs and The Fed,
[55:34] you had not only quantitative easing,
[55:37] right, or reduction of interest rates, but you also had quantitative easing and money that was put into the system,
[55:44] which essentially is like a net negative interest rate, right?
[55:48] Kevin Choquette: That’s right.
[55:49] Tony Yousif: And what you are starting to see is the appreciation of values. And these banks that people say kick the can, right, There’s a term that I love using and they always say a rolling stone grows no moss.
[56:04] Well, in the banking world it’s a rolling loan, takes no loss.
[56:09] And right now you can’t blame these institutions in 2009, 1011, these institutions like Wells Fargo, et cetera, that were just as people were saying, extend and pretend. Well, it wasn’t that, it was extend and appreciate.
[56:23] And they turned out to be geniuses, these banks is that they modified, they extended and they worked things out and they sold it into a much better market. 2012, 13, 14.
[56:35] Well, today the drastic difference is that we’re still at heightened levels, in my opinion, on values.
[56:43] You can make the case that multifamily still hasn’t caught up with what interest rate levels are in a cap rate stance.
[56:50] Kevin Choquette: Meaning values haven’t come down.
[56:52] Tony Yousif: Yes, they haven’t come down enough. So there’s still that gap that we need to bridge between buyer and seller.
[56:59] And you know,
[57:00] the other thing is that is the drastic difference is during the great financial crisis,
[57:08] regardless of where the asset was and what asset class it was,
[57:13] we always had a light at the end of the tunnel, meaning there was always going to be an exit plan. There’s a strategy we can implement and there’s a plan and we can execute it and we were generally going to achieve that execution.
[57:28] The difference today is that there’s a lot of these external factors, whether it’s, you know, the city of Portland or the city of Chicago, or mayoral candidates in New York City that are a little bit more drastic than we’ve ever we’ve seen in our past, right.
[57:43] Where even if you have a plan and you execute on it, there are external factors that no one can control and it’s starting to affect the real estate. And what I’m coming up with is some of these assets are zombie assets.
[57:58] Regardless of taking them into the surgery room,
[58:01] they’re dead. You just shoot it in the head and you. And we’ve given the valuation to our lenders is, look, it’s land minus demolition cost.
[58:10] And they offended.
[58:12] And I’m just like, look, this is a 100 year old office building.
[58:16] It’s been,
[58:17] you know, vacant for 10 years.
[58:21] No one is going to Lease it. No one’s going to convert it, you know, and your municipality is not ready to do any, you know, new permits or anything like that.
[58:31] You’ve got everything going against you and the cost of construction’s gone through the roof, etc. Right.
[58:37] Again, not to sound all doom and gloom, but that’s the drastic difference between 10, 15 years ago to today is that there are some assets that we look at that regardless of the plan,
[58:51] we cannot do anything with it and they just have to liquidate.
[58:55] Kevin Choquette: I understand that.
[58:57] Where do you, where do you see then opportunity today? Like, where do you, where do you look at and go, okay, like, if there’s a play and I don’t. Yeah, I don’t, I don’t know if you’re on the side investing in some of these deals, I imagine you have pretty interesting proprietary deal flow.
[59:12] But where do you see opportunity given that some stuff is expecting? Like what I heard you say is some of these assets are going to have to price to perfection and perfection’s unstable.
[59:23] So, like the likelihood of putting in the money and getting the perfect sale, it just isn’t there. Right. So why do it? Like, just write, write down your, write down maybe all your equity and some of your debt sounds like maybe even some writing down big pieces of debt.
[59:37] But where do you see opportunity?
[59:39] Tony Yousif: I see,
[59:40] I mean,
[59:42] here, this is all obviously opinion industrial,
[59:46] I think is,
[59:48] I don’t know, I don’t want to say over inflated. It got really hot, right.
[59:52] And compressed cap rates, et cetera. I don’t see a lot of opportunity there.
[59:57] It just matters on who you are and what company, et cetera, and the capital you have behind you. But trying to find a good industrial deal is few and far between.
[01:00:05] I’m not looking at that.
[01:00:07] Retail, I think if you find the right pockets of retail. I don’t think the Amazon effect was as drastic as we all thought. I think people still like to physically go shop and,
[01:00:17] and go into retail,
[01:00:21] you know, multifamily. I see as a big opportunity in workforce housing and C class B affordable housing.
[01:00:30] If you can get it at a basis that’s realistic.
[01:00:35] And you’re not anticipating rent growth that is unsustainable because you’re dealing with a population finally here and now that’s got the highest amount of credit card debt.
[01:00:50] You’ve got car loans that are at the highest they’ve ever been.
[01:00:56] All that stuff factors into rent collection.
[01:00:59] Right. And you’ve got places like Austin and Nashville that I think overbuilt too quickly and they were catering to outsiders that were moving in.
[01:01:08] And in the end you’re going to eventually have to cater to Austonians and Nashvillians,
[01:01:13] the people that have been there for generations that can’t afford a 2x or 3x increase of rent.
[01:01:22] So if you can find basis or multifamily in those general pockets,
[01:01:28] which is very difficult to do, but if you do,
[01:01:31] I think housing, affordable housing is the right play to go after. But I still see sometime it’s going to be this long drawn out process to reprice some of our multifamily across the country.
[01:01:48] Because just last year alone we valued,
[01:01:52] I don’t know, it was tens of thousands of units for one agency alone of potentially distress workouts.
[01:02:03] So we’re still seeing quite a few distress in multifamily.
[01:02:08] But I think again, if you can get your hands on some of that,
[01:02:13] there is a drastic need for affordable housing throughout the country.
[01:02:17] Kevin Choquette: Yeah, housing that people can. Workforce housing, housing people can actually afford.
[01:02:22] Tony Yousif: Yeah, yeah. And the construction loans that are being put into play for the most part it’s for class A. Right. It’s like, okay, we don’t need more stuff.
[01:02:32] Kevin Choquette: That’s the only thing that pencils. You can’t go build unless you’re doing well. I don’t even want to get into all the esoteric financing that is available for quote unquote, affordable housing.
[01:02:43] Let’s shift a little bit to the people in the team. Right. You just said we valued 10,000 some units for a single agency. So how do you find or assimilate the talent?
[01:02:56] And maybe it’s worth backing up a little bit because I know, I think they’re, you know, I was kind of doing a bit of research.
[01:03:01] You’ve got senior living,
[01:03:03] maybe SVN Vanguard and SVN Elevate,
[01:03:08] maybe break those down for everybody. And then, you know, talent and people. How do you go about. I’m sure that some of these are informal alliances where you just call up the guy in Austin and you’re like, hey Mike, this is the thing, like, let’s work together on this.
[01:03:22] And you know, you’re all kind of working on, on the. Well, I suppose some of it sounds like you monetize, but maybe break down the different things you’re involved with.
[01:03:31] And then let’s talk about how you build these teams and find the right people.
[01:03:35] Tony Yousif: Yeah. So the property management company is SVN Elevate.
[01:03:41] I’ve got,
[01:03:42] I think it’s what, 12 people under me from the accounting side to the quote unquote asset Management and you know, these are people.
[01:03:56] Everyone on that team has been in the industry for a very long time.
[01:04:00] Our controller, cfo,
[01:04:02] she acted as an interim CFO for prologis.
[01:04:07] The accounting department is based out of Denver.
[01:04:10] They’ve been with me since 2018.
[01:04:13] And then my asset managers are, like I said, ex JLL people, ex Cushman, ex CBRE asset managers. And some of them,
[01:04:22] you know, ran REITs.
[01:04:24] So they not only understand the,
[01:04:27] the, you know, nuts and bolts of property management, but also asset management, which is oversight of a plan. Right. And execution.
[01:04:35] And what we do is we partner with,
[01:04:37] if say Rialto calls us to take over five buildings in Texas.
[01:04:41] We partner with our boots on the ground partners,
[01:04:44] whether they’re with SVN or not.
[01:04:48] You know, one thing that’s unique with me is that I’ve been agnostic as to which teams. You know, we’ll partner with Colliers, we’ll partner with JLL Cushman or a third party private,
[01:05:01] you know, firm that isn’t national,
[01:05:05] but they happen to be, you know, like Sterling for instance, in Louisiana. They happen to be the best of class in that state.
[01:05:12] And we partner with them to be our boots on the ground that work together to manage from the property level,
[01:05:20] you know, facilities to asset management and all that is being run,
[01:05:26] you know, out of Denver. And I have people in Cincinnati, Florida,
[01:05:30] you know, Missouri, etc.
[01:05:34] And you know, last year alone we took over and managed about 92 different property management assets.
[01:05:40] Anywhere from there was the shopping center that’s next to the Mount Olani resort in Oahu,
[01:05:48] and then assets all the way up to New York City. And we took over a marina slash shopping center down in Punta Gorda in Florida. Highly complex situations and you know, relying on boots on the ground that we can kind of conduct our orchestra, right?
[01:06:04] It’s a SWAT team.
[01:06:06] And then in terms of the senior housing deal,
[01:06:10] that one was unique because during the great financial crisis, you know, that entire time there was no senior housing issues.
[01:06:17] So during COVID 2020, it was May of 2020, two months after we all got essentially shut down.
[01:06:26] You know, I got a call from friends at the agency and said, what do you know about senior housing? I said, well, it houses seniors,
[01:06:33] right? And, and I don’t know anything else. They said, okay, well take 48 hours, try to find who is really connected in this in terms of operational and all that.
[01:06:43] And I found out very quickly that a lot of these lenders underwrote these deals to be real estate, when in fact it’s operational businesses that just happen to be inside of real estate and highly complex, much more complex than hotels.
[01:06:57] You’ve got regulatory issues,
[01:07:00] you know, the fact that you’re dealing with human lives and nurses and staff and.
[01:07:05] And it got really affected in Covid. And I said, wow, you know what,
[01:07:09] maybe this is a once in a lifetime opportunity where the lenders that have relied on me need help. I just got to go and recruit a team that knows their stuff.
[01:07:19] And I recruited people that ran, you know, $1 billion REIT. I recruited people that ran the number one brokerage,
[01:07:27] Senior Housing Team X CEO and others to tackle senior housing situations that have still been occurring since 2020.
[01:07:39] And, you know, we’ve done very well. We’ve already,
[01:07:42] you know, sold millions of dollars. Last year alone, we valued $2 billion of potentially distressed senior housing deals. And,
[01:07:50] you know, that that industry is very complex.
[01:07:54] And then,
[01:07:55] you know, they. The essentially all that is under the platform that I run with the help of Michael Watson from a valuation standpoint, brokerage, and, you know, all the resources that we utilize to help our clients.
[01:08:11] And you know, for instance, when the folks at KeyBank were looking to build their platform and take on more servicing back in 2016,
[01:08:20] we became an extension of theirs where they would go do underwriting for their bondholders. And because we had 200 offices nationwide, you know, essentially 30 minutes physically away from any,
[01:08:37] you know, asset,
[01:08:39] we would be their boots on the ground that would help them underwrite, take photos, drive by the asset, give them localized color with partners that have been in that on an average of 15, 20 years.
[01:08:52] Right.
[01:08:53] And,
[01:08:54] you know, that’s where we found our unique position in the industry is, look, we’re partnering to help you guys scale.
[01:09:02] And if anything goes wrong,
[01:09:04] call us and we’ll take over that asset. But in the meantime, we’ll help you guys with the underwriting and be your boots on the ground and give you that clear perspective.
[01:09:13] Kevin Choquette: And that’s the SVN Vanguard entity then?
[01:09:17] Tony Yousif: Yeah, so Vanguard is just the entity down here in San Diego, and I just happen to have my license under it. But each one of our.
[01:09:24] Yeah, each one of the SVN offices is independently owned. It’s a franchise model.
[01:09:29] Kevin Choquette: Right.
[01:09:29] Tony Yousif: One like, say, cbre, which is corporate. Right. We’ve got, I think we’re down to maybe 160 offices now, but we have over 2,000 advisors nationwide.
[01:09:40] Kevin Choquette: So how do you get from, hey, Mr. Wells Fargo. Yeah, yeah, I just walked in the convenience store to buy a bottle of water from there to having them call you and you say, yeah, look, I’ve got presence in 160 plus markets because you’re not limiting yourself just to SVN and then being able to sort of leverage off that network where there’s another relationship that some dude named Tony in San Diego can call this guy in,
[01:10:11] I don’t know, Pittsburgh and be like, hey, I’ve got an office asset. Let’s work together on this. Like, what’s that look like? How do you build that network?
[01:10:18] How do you get that? So when you hit the button, something happens on the other end.
[01:10:23] Tony Yousif: Yeah, it’s patience, perseverance. I mean, I, I go Back to like 2009 where before I was married,
[01:10:30] you know, at that time I had to borrow a ring from my friend who was a jeweler just to ask for my wife’s hand in marriage. I mean, I was very poor, living with my parents.
[01:10:42] I mean, it was like putting in 100 hour weeks for two and a half years and not making any return on it takes a lot of patience and perseverance. And this is something,
[01:10:54] you know, a message to the younger generation that’s just starting if you believe in yourself and the plan.
[01:11:02] You know,
[01:11:03] I don’t know if that’s sometimes even enough because I luckily had my best friend at the time who wasn’t married to me, my wife who was working at a accounting firm, and she would lend me, essentially this was her investment.
[01:11:17] She turned out to be much smarter than me.
[01:11:20] She was giving me a thousand dollars of her $3,000 a month salary to keep me going. Because I remember two clear times. Yeah, I remember two times clearly. And this is when you and I knew each other and we’re in Rotary together, where I was going to just quit and I just said,
[01:11:37] I gotta go find a 9 to 5.
[01:11:39] And she believed in me and said, look, you’re on, you know, the clear path of something that’s unique and big.
[01:11:45] And you know, she believed in me. And that support that I got was just immense. And having that is really important.
[01:11:53] You know,
[01:11:54] if you’re having to pull all that energy just from yourself, you get to a point where you become,
[01:12:00] you know, you get burnt out and you’re going to have to have others to help keep you going.
[01:12:07] I had clear mentors, I had people that believed in me, which I was very fortunate.
[01:12:12] And I think what resonated with people is that I was just, I tried hard, I worked hard and I was,
[01:12:18] if I made a commitment,
[01:12:20] and my father taught me this at a very young age. He says if you commit something and you give somebody your word,
[01:12:26] that’s all you’ve got is your word. And if your leg gets in the way of executing on that word, you cut that leg off.
[01:12:33] And it was just, that’s it. And I think people were able to see that very quickly.
[01:12:38] I mean, when I say very quickly, it took them two and a half years. Right. But,
[01:12:42] you know, then after our first deal, and my first commission check was $25,000, so it’s not like all my two and a half years. Okay. I just paid everything off.
[01:12:51] Right. It was still.
[01:12:53] And I have it framed in the house.
[01:12:56] It was.
[01:12:57] And my wife framed it for me and she put all these words around it, that’s perseverance and whatever, all this stuff. Right. But then it, then it exponentially grew from there.
[01:13:06] And she believed in me and knew.
[01:13:09] And I think it came down to just convincing these folks, these gals and guys that, look,
[01:13:15] I am going to be that intermediary. I’m going to be involved. This is not just a referral source. I’m not just going to send it to some broker in Pittsburgh to work on it and then expect check.
[01:13:27] I’m going to be involved. You’re not going to have to recreate the wheel every time you call on a new broker or a property manager.
[01:13:34] We’re going to essentially be your third party asset manager, and we’re going to oversee this thing.
[01:13:38] And it’s like the duck in the pond. You don’t see the feet, you know, constantly moving.
[01:13:45] But we’re, we’re, we’re doing a lot behind the scenes to make sure this stuff moves forward, because especially today,
[01:13:53] a lot of these asset managers, unfortunately, are green, are new to the business,
[01:13:59] and they’re having to rely on people that know what they’re doing.
[01:14:02] Kevin Choquette: This is on the capital allocator side, right?
[01:14:05] Tony Yousif: Oh, yeah, With Lender. I mean, I have a newer client that we were just introduced to four weeks ago,
[01:14:12] and some of their asset managers have over 60 matters. That’s insane,
[01:14:16] right?
[01:14:17] Kevin Choquette: Yeah.
[01:14:17] Tony Yousif: Each one has to deal with 60 matters of defaulted deals or bankruptcy and whatever. It’s like, there’s no way. And, and there’s a certain example of a deal that went into default in November and they just filed the notice of default two weeks ago.
[01:14:33] And that, you know, that’s the thing. We cater to those clients that,
[01:14:38] you know, are like the old,
[01:14:40] you know, that guy that got on stage and had to spin the, the, the plates on the,
[01:14:45] you know, I’m aging myself. Right. But it’s like you have to keep things going or things are going to crash around you. So we just come in and we help move things along.
[01:14:56] And we got to a point where, like Colony Capital, for instance, said, we don’t care who you hire and partner with as long as you’re involved.
[01:15:04] And that’s it. It just became a trusted advisor.
[01:15:08] They knew that if they called upon us, we got to a point where we weren’t competing for the business. It was just a matter of,
[01:15:16] yes, we can help you, or the 30% of times that we said, no.
[01:15:21] Not only we said, no, we’re not the right fit, but we recommended two or three competitors that they should reach out to that we did not ask for a referral fee on.
[01:15:30] And that,
[01:15:30] I mean, it takes years and years, but the industry is so small, in my opinion,
[01:15:37] that,
[01:15:38] you know, the word gets out, right? It’s like, okay, this is a person of reputation. This is a person of honor and integrity.
[01:15:45] And we want you lender to use Tony and his team because he’s been successful with us.
[01:15:53] And it’s that word of mouth, you know, that you can’t pay for.
[01:15:56] Kevin Choquette: And how many of the people that you’ve thrown business to over the years,
[01:16:00] where I’ll go back to Pittsburgh and just say, hey, for whatever reason,
[01:16:04] your local Pittsburgh contact on makeup, a data center or whatever, just, you know, something that’s like, hey, I. It’s going to be harder for me to be as effective in that role.
[01:16:14] You should call Jimmy. Let’s just call him Jimmy. How many times have you sent business out to Jimmy and then had it come back to you? One, five, ten years later?
[01:16:24] Tony Yousif: Yeah, it’s happened.
[01:16:26] And unfortunately, if I don’t have the right contact in that market,
[01:16:30] you know, there’s been times where the lender or the client really wants us to work on an asset.
[01:16:35] But unfortunately, I don’t have the right partner.
[01:16:38] And there have been times in the beginning, everybody, all the brokers, especially during the early part of the great financial crisis, everyone said,
[01:16:47] oh, yeah, I’m a hotel expert. And it took me years later that I found out their expertise was that they’ve been in hotels. Right, right, right. Yeah. And I’m like, you know, and it was to a point where it became reputational risk.
[01:17:00] And although I’m one of the nicest guys out there, I think my partners and especially the.
[01:17:07] The brokers and individuals that I partner with.
[01:17:10] Dave, I remember one person before we were getting interviewed, he turned to me, he goes, you’re the nicest Bulldog.
[01:17:16] And I said, what does that mean? He goes, man, if somebody is getting in the way of your reputation and they’re not being honest in terms of their capabilities, you really can snap at somebody.
[01:17:27] And I said, that’s all I expect out of people, is honesty.
[01:17:31] And so it,
[01:17:32] especially in the SVN network, it got to a point where people did not tell me that they were a hotel expert unless they were.
[01:17:39] And so it was easier for me to realize now that I’ve done billions of dollars of transactions, thousands of deals.
[01:17:48] We know where the strengths and weaknesses are with our partners.
[01:17:51] And so even without reaching out to the guy or gal in Pittsburgh, we can already tell whether we’re going to be able to help or not.
[01:17:58] But.
[01:17:58] Kevin Choquette: And the role, the role that you’re playing, if I’m hearing you right, in terms of being a catalyst, is you’re helping the asset manager move through the business issues and that’s creating value for.
[01:18:11] Let’s go back to Pittsburgh in that he’s not just getting a listing that’s gonna stagnate for 16 months because the asset manager doesn’t know what to do or how to do it.
[01:18:20] And so you’re helping it move on both sides.
[01:18:22] Tony Yousif: Oh, there’s no doubt we’re staying involved because there is a point where sometimes the numbers that they’re getting, like, let’s say we produce nine offers and all the offers are not where the lender wants to be, but we’ve made a market.
[01:18:37] This is where the hard conversation comes to play, right? It’s me that’s getting on the phone call and saying, guys or gals, here’s what we’re dealing with. Here are the costs of holding this asset.
[01:18:49] This is. And sometimes they don’t listen, right?
[01:18:51] And there’s other portfolio issues that had nothing to do with just that asset.
[01:18:57] But, you know, having to have that rapport and that trust where we’re, we’re, we’re making a difference. And you know, what I’m very proud of is I’ve really helped a lot of entrepreneurs, those broker partners in Pittsburgh and other places grow their businesses because,
[01:19:16] you know, me and my team are not on any brochure. If you go on to social media or you go on to CoStar or whatever,
[01:19:24] I am not on any brochure. You’ll have no clue whether I’m involved in anything or not. The only thing that I have, you know,
[01:19:32] I guess a Internet presence on is LinkedIn. And I do that. I guess it’s a matter of not having an ego I just don’t like doing marketing in the, you know,
[01:19:44] I guess a traditional sense. I’d rather do word of mouth and be under the radar because it makes me be able to be kind of more of a submarine against my competitors taking on a lot more market share without my competitors knowing what that market share is.
[01:20:02] And, you know, I’ve been able to help these people in Pittsburgh and other places build upon that, because not only do they get this assignment that they wouldn’t have gotten,
[01:20:11] but there are buyers and borrowers and owners in that market that they’re living and breathing in that they’re able to take that and capitalize on getting other business that I’m not going to be involved in.
[01:20:24] So, yeah, I’ve helped produce millions and millions of dollars that I didn’t get any residual income out of. But you know what?
[01:20:31] That’s the thing is, like, most of my partners see me as a client now. It’s like, okay, what are we going to do to ensure that Tony believes in us?
[01:20:40] I’m as critical as the client, sometimes even more,
[01:20:43] because my reputation’s on the line. And it’s like, look, your reward is that you’re going to get this assignment and you’re going to get others, and I’m not going to get any,
[01:20:52] you know, residual off of that. But you need to be honorable, honest, and we are looking out for as a fiduciary to the client. I don’t care if the buyer is someone you’ve known for 20 years.
[01:21:04] There is no conflict,
[01:21:05] you know, staying involved in that. That whole matter.
[01:21:08] Kevin Choquette: That’s awesome. How do you think about compensation? I. I get that there’s kind of the local vanguard. There’s the senior living, and then there’s the property management thing. So I suppose I’ll try to narrow it down because you’re obviously compensating everybody based on their contributions, and that’s far too big of a question.
[01:21:28] Let’s just stay with the alliance with what it’s for all intents and purposes,
[01:21:34] and independent broker in Pittsburgh who you have a good relationship with. They trust you, you trust them. They’re seeing you as the client. But obviously, your firm’s got to get paid.
[01:21:43] How do you guys deal with the,
[01:21:45] you know, chopping up the. The revenue?
[01:21:47] Tony Yousif: Yeah, we. We charge the client, essentially market.
[01:21:51] There’s no, like, oversight asset management fee or anything like that. So let’s say we’re getting four points on a deal.
[01:21:58] You know, that’s $10 million or whatever like that.
[01:22:01] We,
[01:22:02] you know, it all comes down to the complexity of the deal, how involved we are versus them,
[01:22:07] you know, the expectations of the client, how long it takes. All those come into factor.
[01:22:12] But we generally split, you know, the compensation according to that situation. So,
[01:22:19] you know, the brokerage fee, that 4% is taken in by the Pittsburgh,
[01:22:24] you know, broker, and after the fact, we split it Accordingly, whether it’s 20, 80 or 50, 50 or whatever it may be,
[01:22:33] and that’s how we get compensated.
[01:22:35] But we’re involved every step of the way. So again,
[01:22:38] the lenders and. And all those folks, they just see this added value and,
[01:22:45] you know, experience of dealing with us,
[01:22:48] and they’re not paying a premium for it. So I think it’s been easy to sell that.
[01:22:53] Um,
[01:22:54] and you. You get to a point where essentially, like, Fannie Mae is one of our best clients, and we know and trust and love every individual over there.
[01:23:04] There’s a loyalty that is on both sides.
[01:23:08] They call on us on complicated, simple matters, whatever. And we. We have these,
[01:23:13] you know, calls that are constant with their asset managers about, okay, you know, we’re looking at this asset.
[01:23:19] You know, some of our people are saying we should do this. What do you guys think?
[01:23:23] And to me,
[01:23:24] I’m very proud of the fact that we’ve been working on that client for over eight years, nine years,
[01:23:31] and it’s. It’s really coming to a point where we don’t have to try to prove ourselves to them anymore.
[01:23:39] And that patience and perseverance really paying off for us because we’ve been consistent and they’re coming to us in a matter that they’re not coming to any other broker.
[01:23:50] And to me, I’m very proud that my team has been able to accomplish that with not only Fannie Mae, but others.
[01:23:56] You know, it’s just.
[01:23:58] Yeah.
[01:23:59] Kevin Choquette: Do you find it hard to.
[01:24:03] So look, if I’m sure you guys have a, you know,
[01:24:06] CRM contact management software for most of us, if you just sort of took a snapshot in time and said, okay, how many of these are current?
[01:24:18] I’m going to GUESS it’s like 80% are, at best, current, 20%. The people have moved on just because careers are dynamic and roles change and people.
[01:24:31] Tony Yousif: Oh, for individuals.
[01:24:32] Kevin Choquette: Yeah. So do you find it difficult to maintain that sort of.
[01:24:36] Because, like, what you’re talking about is a very human trust and connection, a relationship. Somebody at Fannie Mae knows Tony, and I mean,
[01:24:47] I’m imagining. And I don’t know the facts, but somebody’s vouching for you. Somebody’s like, hey guys,
[01:24:52] Tony’s the guy. Like we’re going to work with him. But if that guy leaves, then what happens? How you guys manage that?
[01:24:56] Tony Yousif: Yeah,
[01:24:57] so there are things that have happened at the agency now with FHFA that some people have gotten laid off, you know,
[01:25:05] and other banks and, you know, these asset management sides are, are kind of seen as a cost center.
[01:25:11] So when the banks and the institutions are doing really well, they’re putting most of their money and support into the origination side because that’s the money making side. Right,
[01:25:19] right. And so a lot of these asset managers, either they retire or they’ve been laid off,
[01:25:25] but for the most part,
[01:25:27] and this is what’s so awesome.
[01:25:29] Like take Sabal Financial for instance, and they were backed by Oaktree during the financial crisis.
[01:25:34] Most of their people have gone to Regions or Money360 or Ready Capital or,
[01:25:39] you know, you name it. And, and that tree,
[01:25:43] you know, I call them the Sabalers have been so good to me because of the work that we provided them during the last decade.
[01:25:51] And they moved on. And these are experts in their own world that have moved on to different companies that have followed me.
[01:25:58] Kevin Choquette: Yeah, there you go.
[01:26:00] Tony Yousif: It’s amazing. And that’s the reason why we do zero marketing.
[01:26:05] You know, I’ll get on panels, I’ll get on, you know, things like this for friends and folks. But we, we generally, the word gets out because it’s mostly people that, you know, we’ve done a lot of business with and, and those who get laid off or they, they retire because of age or whatever reason,
[01:26:26] it’s very hard to then convince the next person is, that’s in that role.
[01:26:31] And sometimes, you know, we’ve put in four years, five years of time and investment and taking people out to dinners and coming out to wherever they are, Pittsburgh, wherever,
[01:26:40] and all of it is all for naught because the next person that is in that role and the asset managers under them are convinced that you’re not the right person or they have their contacts with, you know, you name whatever other institutional brokerage company,
[01:26:55] and it’s happened to me in the past,
[01:26:58] that I can’t convince them. And it’s like, you know, I get to a point, and this is not an arrogant statement, you get to a point where if it doesn’t resonate the first time or the second time, it’s like trying to date somebody.
[01:27:13] You know, you can’t force a relationship.
[01:27:15] And so I am humble enough to say, you know what,
[01:27:18] that was going to be good.
[01:27:20] And unfortunately, for whatever circumstance, like you said, the human nature of things,
[01:27:25] they moved on. And I just meet with my team and say, you know what, let’s like we did this just last Thursday. We went through all the current clients and we actually deleted.
[01:27:36] I think there were like eight of them out of our CRM because of movement of human capital or whatever other reason.
[01:27:45] And it just happens.
[01:27:46] Kevin Choquette: Yeah, I think it’s wise though to just realize,
[01:27:50] you know, we’ll just move on to the next sales prospect at the top of the funnel. Right.
[01:27:55] This one’s not going to work. We still have other people at the top of the funnel, keep putting our energy in, eventually they’re going to drop. And then you’ve, from what the sounds of it, lifetime value of those relationships once they drop is very high.
[01:28:07] Tony Yousif: Well, and what I’ve, what I’ve found, again, life is pretty difficult in terms of, because I’m a,
[01:28:13] I’m a very relationship oriented person. And what I learned and I shared this with, with, with friends many other times. I gave this speech earlier this year and you know, when a good friend, I don’t know.
[01:28:28] Did you know Richard Kipperman? **** Kipperman? No. He was a receiver. Okay. So he was here in, in La Mesa, in San Diego. He’s one of the most well respected bankruptcy trustees and receivers.
[01:28:41] And one month before he passed away, we got breakfast in La Mesa and he said to me, do you want the secret to life?
[01:28:50] I said, absolutely. He says, no,
[01:28:52] not to just life, to your life. I said, what do you mean? How do you know the secret of my life?
[01:28:57] He says, well, I know you. And he says,
[01:29:00] what I need you to do, whether it’s daily, monthly, quarterly or annually,
[01:29:06] is when you get to the office in the early hours, when no one else is in the office, go in front of a whiteboard and draw three circles.
[01:29:15] So if one circle gets larger, the other have to retract and get smaller.
[01:29:21] And they’re pulling and pushing on one another. And one circle, you want it for work and business relationships.
[01:29:28] The next circle is friends and family and then the third circle is self. And he said, I know that your self circle is minuscule almost to the point where it doesn’t even exist.
[01:29:39] And he says, because I know you have made a lot of commitments to people, whether it’s friends, family or work.
[01:29:45] And he says, I know your work circle is large and you’re trying to find people say the word balance. He says, balance is absolutely impossible. He says, you gotta find harmony between the three.
[01:29:57] And he said, what I want you to do in front of that whiteboard is draw those three circles,
[01:30:02] and you gotta be honest with yourself, and then step back and reflect on that. And he says, you’ve gotta. You’ve gotta try to grow that self circle, because without self, and that’s health and, you know, from stress to physical and whatever, taking care of yourself, he says the other two circles essentially will burst.
[01:30:21] And what he learned, what he knew about me, is that I’m somebody that,
[01:30:26] like I told you earlier, that if I make a commitment to somebody, I’m going to see it through.
[01:30:32] And what I found over the last 10 years is that I’ve made commitments to a lot of clients.
[01:30:38] And those clients are personal relationships. They’re not just arbitrary ABC company.
[01:30:44] It’s these folks that I’ve spent time and time going traveling,
[01:30:48] dinners, whatever. Last year, I was 185 nights away from my children, family, traveling.
[01:30:55] Kevin Choquette: Wow.
[01:30:55] Tony Yousif: This year, prior to June, I was on my way to hitting 200.
[01:30:59] And in July,
[01:31:01] I decided I’m going to take a break and just stay home and spend the summer with my family as much as I can.
[01:31:08] And what, you know, I realized by what we were talking about earlier is that, you know, you gotta. When I said I want to get rid of toxic relationships or I want to, you know,
[01:31:20] get rid of others, is it frees up time that already is finite,
[01:31:26] that I can’t put into each and every one of these relationships fully by severing 10, 15 relationships. So it frees up more time for those ones that are critical and do look at us as one of partnership so that I can go out to New York and go out to Texas and go out to wherever and spend personal time with these individuals that have been very rewarding to me from a monetary and growth standpoint.
[01:31:56] And that’s what’s different, is like, when I was with my chiropractor,
[01:32:00] I told him. He says, how. Why do you travel so much? I said, when’s the last time you had dinner or you went out with any of your clients? He’s like, what are you talking about?
[01:32:09] I don’t do that. They just come in, they get chiropractic, whatever, you know, adjusted, right?
[01:32:15] And then they go home. And I said, yeah, you look at them as just a.
[01:32:19] Like a ticket, right? And not to be impersonal or anything, but each and every one of my clients,
[01:32:25] I see as. I know their family, I know their spouses, I know their. I know them.
[01:32:31] You know, we go to the Masters together, we go to outings. We spend personal time with one another. So if you spent four or five years nurturing one relationships and they, and they happen to get laid off or whatever,
[01:32:45] you know, you look at that and you say, man, that was a lot of time that I could have spent on my son or my wife.
[01:32:52] And there’s a lot of regret that comes from it. And that’s why looking at this, you know, when **** Kipperman passed away, he, he told me, like, reflect,
[01:33:02] choose who you spend time on,
[01:33:04] because time is finite. And he was doing this one month before he passed away, essentially on his deathbed, you know, death march,
[01:33:11] and reflecting on life. And he said, don’t feel bad for me because I’ve lived a better life than you could have seven lifetimes. Right?
[01:33:19] But it will help you and benefit you if you reflect and look at each and every relationship that way. And luckily, because monetarily we’ve done so well,
[01:33:29] I can be more selective in the type of people I want to do business with. I want to surround myself with.
[01:33:36] Is it something that is going to be self growth from this partnership or is it just like, you know, I don’t, I never looked at this as transactional or cold calling or like I said, Hunter,
[01:33:47] you know, it’s more of harvesting.
[01:33:50] So it’s, it’s a pretty cool message to give to other entrepreneurs. It takes a lot of patience though,
[01:33:57] and self reflection.
[01:33:59] Kevin Choquette: Go back to what I asked you before,
[01:34:01] especially with the color in terms of,
[01:34:04] um, being a immigrant family from Iraq and, and starting in Chicago and, and being, you know, supported by the state and all that sort of stuff,
[01:34:14] you know, in the, in the day, today, in the grind,
[01:34:18] right when you’re just one foot in front of the other, you’re doing,
[01:34:22] you know, especially early on as you portray a hundred hours a week.
[01:34:28] How do you stand where you’re at now and look back like,
[01:34:32] just for a moment, reflect back like, okay, I started back there, worked for two and a half years to make my first $25,000 commission check.
[01:34:41] What’s the sensation here now just standing here going like, okay, yeah, actually that’s a long path like I’ve traveled. Yeah.
[01:34:50] Tony Yousif: Oh, it’s,
[01:34:51] I mean, it’s, it’s humbling.
[01:34:54] I’m very proud of the fact that we’ve been able to accomplish so much.
[01:35:00] I always tell people I couldn’t do it without the partnerships and the mentorship and,
[01:35:05] you know, from personal to business.
[01:35:08] It’s really cool to me that people believed in me and gave me the chance and opportunity and I Was able to, for the most part, you know, I, I have failed,
[01:35:19] you know, some folks, and it was just because I, I, I just couldn’t execute. Right.
[01:35:26] Things were too overwhelming at the time or whatever it may be. Right. But for the most part,
[01:35:33] we’ve been very successful and people believed in us. And I’ve been able to grow very personal,
[01:35:42] rewarding relationships with clients,
[01:35:46] people that have been way too kind to me and a lot of times are apologetic that they haven’t given me enough business.
[01:35:56] And,
[01:35:57] you know, every time I respond to them and I say, look, guys,
[01:36:01] you’re kidding, right? Like, this is, it’s so rewarding.
[01:36:05] You know, you’ve taken a welfare recipient kid who essentially lived the American dream and was able to build something out of nothing, and you supported me along the way.
[01:36:15] I’ve, I’ve got nothing but,
[01:36:17] you know,
[01:36:18] adoration or,
[01:36:20] you know,
[01:36:21] just,
[01:36:22] you know, I owe everything to admiration like that. Yeah, admiration and all that stuff. So,
[01:36:28] you know, I look back and I sometimes I reflect with my wife,
[01:36:31] you know, just from 2009 to today,
[01:36:35] what we’ve been able to build from nothing. And it’s just,
[01:36:38] it’s,
[01:36:39] it’s really rewarding. And,
[01:36:41] you know, one thing that is important to my wife and I,
[01:36:47] that’s extremely important is gratitude.
[01:36:50] And this was my brilliant wife’s idea that, you know, my two boys are Lucas and Noah. They’re 10 and 8,
[01:36:58] almost 11 and 9. And,
[01:37:00] you know,
[01:37:01] since the first day they were able to speak,
[01:37:03] no matter where I am in the country,
[01:37:06] you know, at bedtime,
[01:37:08] we share.
[01:37:10] Each one of us is required to share three things that we were grateful for.
[01:37:15] For the day to reflect on the day.
[01:37:18] Gratitude, not taking things for granted.
[01:37:22] And we could be grateful for the most simple things, but it’s just about reflection and being grateful and not taking for granted what we have in a world that essentially a country that sometimes feels a little too privileged and too entitled.
[01:37:37] Right.
[01:37:38] So it’s important for us to look back and constantly reflect,
[01:37:43] even sometimes when we’re too immersed and we’re not able to.
[01:37:47] Kevin Choquette: So when you go,
[01:37:49] like, I can relate, by the way, my first check was 40k.
[01:37:52] But when you go back and you, you recognize, like, hey, my, my now wife, then girlfriend lending me a thousand bucks a month helping this thing, like get going. I’m all in that, you know, it’s, it’s succeed or die kind of a thing.
[01:38:10] And then, and then you, you come to today and I don’t know, I don’t, I don’t need to know, don’t want to know.
[01:38:17] Sort of the magnitude of success that you’ve had. But clearly you are not needing to work at the convenience store.
[01:38:25] You’re not making clever sidebars with the Wells Fargo guys saying, no, yeah, I’m just picking up a bottle of water and at some point, like, okay, food and shelter have been taken care of.
[01:38:36] And you know, if we did, like Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, you’re, you’re talking about. I have personal relationships with people that, that are more meaningful perhaps than the business. And so,
[01:38:48] like along that journey, money starts to change, or at least it can change. I wonder how money is looking to you now in terms of, yeah, what’s the utility?
[01:38:58] And I get this is pretty esoteric, but like, what’s the utility of money if you get to the point where you’ve kind of got enough or you have more than you might have ever anticipated?
[01:39:07] Tony Yousif: Well, I love look, you know, coming from Rags, I guess I’ve always said I want to get to a point where I can make a difference. And you know, I’m involved in a charity organization where we raise millions of dollars for veterans with ptsd.
[01:39:25] And you know, I’m not a veteran. Right.
[01:39:28] I just happened to find that to be something that is important. And then, you know, on our times in Rotary and I was involved in the board of the San Diego Zoo where I was raising funds and now I’m on the San Diego foundation board,
[01:39:44] you know, helping all these other organizations. And to me it’s like when you’re able to be successful enough to make a difference and lead by example and,
[01:39:54] you know, help others do things that are mindful rather than just being motivated by greed.
[01:40:01] I think that’s important to me.
[01:40:04] You know, you get to a point and Maslow’s is very like that resonates with me because,
[01:40:09] you know, you’ve got Gandhi and Mother Teresa that finally found self actualization.
[01:40:15] But that’s rare, right? It’s a 0.01% of society that actually finds that where you can be stripped of everything and anything and all your accomplishments and you’re going to be just fine.
[01:40:27] And, you know, that’s my goal. It’s. I think I’ve found that it’s almost impossible.
[01:40:33] But I,
[01:40:33] It’s a, it’s a morbid way of thinking that, you know, luckily for me, at the age of 19, I started reflecting and saying, okay, I want to live life as if I’m on my deathbed and if I’m my med.
[01:40:44] If I’M my deathbed.
[01:40:47] What’s important to me, Family,
[01:40:49] accomplishment, legacy.
[01:40:51] Not if I close that deal in New York or not. Right.
[01:40:55] And you’re motivated by so many other things.
[01:40:58] But you get to a point where I am today is the commitments I’ve made to my employees, the commitments I’ve made to other people.
[01:41:06] You’ve created a machine that you have to continue to feed,
[01:41:09] and it pulls you in different directions that you want to go.
[01:41:13] Like I’ve told people,
[01:41:14] you know, I’ve had folks saying, hey, man, you could be a billionaire if you wanted to be. And I was like, cool. That’s. That’s great. But there’s nothing enticing about that idea.
[01:41:23] It just sounds like a lot more stress.
[01:41:26] And, you know, I’ve never been, like, luckily, from my father, who’s, you know, my biggest hero,
[01:41:32] he always said, look out, people. Reflect on folks that have less than you, not people that have more. Because if you get stuck in this material world,
[01:41:41] you’re never going to get out of it.
[01:41:43] Someone is always going to have more than you, always have something shinier, always have a bigger portfolio.
[01:41:49] Reflect on those who have less than you, and then you’ll be able to see that you’ve got a dang good life. Right?
[01:41:55] And I try to do that all the time.
[01:41:59] Sometimes I’m guilty of wanting to be at that country club or play that course or be at that,
[01:42:06] you know, ski resort that no one else can get to, just for your own pride and ego.
[01:42:12] But for the most part, I think I’ve been able to reflect on, you know, money is just a tool to eat,
[01:42:19] sustain, take care of your family.
[01:42:22] But, you know, other than that, it’s. It’s not really the important thing that motivates me.
[01:42:28] If you do things the right way and you’re executing on your commitment, the money is going to come regardless.
[01:42:37] Kevin Choquette: I love that I just had that same conversation with an employee.
[01:42:42] I won’t go into it, but let me. Let me ask you this.
[01:42:45] You clearly have the drive, right?
[01:42:50] You’re here now, so it’s easy to look back and say, hey, it’s likely that nothing and no one could have stopped you.
[01:42:59] But I wonder,
[01:43:00] like, why was it commercial real estate? What. What was the day where you’re like, okay, this is the path I’m gonna take. And. And probably even more to the point,
[01:43:10] 6, 8, 10, 12, 14 years in,
[01:43:14] you could have pivoted out multiple times, and yet you have stayed here. I’m just curious, from your perspective, why commercial real estate?
[01:43:22] Tony Yousif: Yeah. No,
[01:43:24] somebody in 2004, five said,
[01:43:27] cause I, I,
[01:43:28] I had found businesses with other people’s money and they would put in the equity essentially brokering deals, you know, when I was in college and, and, and that time, and then I would go and operate those businesses for a profit.
[01:43:42] I would run those,
[01:43:43] whether, whether they were convenience stores or car washes or supermarkets.
[01:43:48] I, we would turn them around, they would go from 20,000amonth to 80,000amonth and then we would sell them and I would get an equity check pref, you know.
[01:43:59] Kevin Choquette: Oh, interesting.
[01:44:00] Tony Yousif: Yeah. And so somebody told me, and I think it was 04, hey man, you’d be a good broker.
[01:44:05] And, and I realized I didn’t want to be a broker. I wanted to be a relationship guy. And then in, oh, 9 and 10,
[01:44:12] I said, man, this is a cyclical world.
[01:44:15] Let me gain the knowledge, let me gain some, some funds, let me gain the network so that I could be prepared for the next go around to maybe,
[01:44:26] you know, do things like Sam Zell did or Tom Barrick and, and, and start applying my,
[01:44:33] you know, skills into either raising a fund or acquiring some of these assets.
[01:44:41] And that was why I thought real estate was just a, a vehicle. Right. It would just happen to be real estate.
[01:44:47] And I ended up loving it because I’m a problem solver and there’s a lot of problems with real estate and I’m just addicted to solving problems. Right.
[01:44:58] So just applying,
[01:45:00] you know,
[01:45:01] creative thought and execution to sometimes complex or sometimes simple matters and sometimes we just call.
[01:45:10] Kevin Choquette: That being a deal junkie.
[01:45:11] Tony Yousif: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So,
[01:45:13] you know,
[01:45:15] you know, I look back and I say,
[01:45:17] because even though most of my staff and everybody says, man, we can’t keep up with you still, you know, I’m turning 45 this year and I look back at 27 year old Tony and I’m like, could I ever, if I, if I just turn back time and you put me back in 2008,
[01:45:34] could I today work as hard as I did without any sort of reward?
[01:45:40] And I say to myself, and my wife says, you sell yourself short.
[01:45:44] I say, there’s no way in hell could I have ever today, Tony, work that hard,
[01:45:50] you know?
[01:45:51] Kevin Choquette: Yeah. I tend to agree. Biology matters.
[01:45:53] Tony Yousif: Yeah, it’s, it was, it was tough times.
[01:45:57] So, I don’t know, I mean it, I look back and I’m proud of what I’ve been able to build, but it’s not like, you know, I haven’t built like a Blackrock or a Blackstone.
[01:46:05] It’s just,
[01:46:06] I’VE got a good reputation for the most part. I think objectively I’ve got people that trust me and look up to me and sometimes want to hear what I have to say.
[01:46:17] And you know, I think that’s rewarding in itself.
[01:46:21] Kevin Choquette: What about, you know, you mentioned with ****, the three circles and kind of finding harmony amount around business.
[01:46:28] Tony Yousif: I fail.
[01:46:28] Kevin Choquette: I’m failing, right? Fail.
[01:46:31] Yeah, fail. Business for friends,
[01:46:33] family and self.
[01:46:36] What other daily or,
[01:46:38] or routine, whether it’s daily or otherwise,
[01:46:42] things might you do to try to stay sharp, stay in the game, stay at your best.
[01:46:47] Like learn, grow,
[01:46:50] not, not stagnate. What are your, what are your personal behaviors or patterns that you hope kind of keep you on the path?
[01:46:59] Tony Yousif: So look, I think we’re in a society where boredom is not something that happens quite enough. I think being bored is actually a healthy thing.
[01:47:09] And with boredom we tend to go find a book or,
[01:47:13] you know, we internalize, which I, I think the society doesn’t do enough anymore.
[01:47:19] Usually we’re just so,
[01:47:21] you know, we’re, we’re, we’re overstimulated by external factors, whether they your phone, that this, in my opinion, toxic social media,
[01:47:30] you know,
[01:47:31] family, friends,
[01:47:32] relationships. We don’t have a, we don’t give ourself enough time to internalize all the messages and things that we’re hearing.
[01:47:42] So what I’m trying to implement more of is, you know, maybe getting on the surfliner, which is a local train here,
[01:47:49] putting on headphones and not there’s no music,
[01:47:52] it’s just so that people don’t bother you and taking out a legal pad and just documenting ideas and thoughts and reflecting on that. I don’t think people do that enough.
[01:48:03] And I’m trying to implement boredom into my children’s lives more so that they can be creative and self sustaining and like our generation. Play with a stick for two hours outside rather than video game.
[01:48:15] From this to another YouTube to that to,
[01:48:18] you know, little League to basketball to. It’s like everything is so compartmentalized and scheduled these days. And I think for the most part it can get to a point where it’s unhealthy and I’m trying to internalize.
[01:48:30] I’m trying to reflect more,
[01:48:32] I think for mental help too. Right? It’s just,
[01:48:36] it’s, it’s. I think it’s very satisfying and healthy. And then one thing that I fail on is physical health. I definitely don’t work out and take care of myself as much as I want.
[01:48:50] And luckily I’ve got my wife that you Know, reminds me that without physical health, then we don’t have Tony.
[01:48:58] And we’re, we’re both dealing with aging parents. Like,
[01:49:02] you know, her father is dealing with a lot of issues. My father is dealing with a lot of issues. And we’re seeing two parents that didn’t take care of themselves, you know, because they worked so much and they were.
[01:49:14] Sacrificed themselves for the betterment of their family.
[01:49:18] And she’s like, look,
[01:49:20] we’ve got to work on ourselves so that we don’t have to take care of each other when we’re aged. Right.
[01:49:27] And I think that’s important,
[01:49:29] you know, to be able to come in to. Like you said earlier,
[01:49:33] you have a self trainer that you. Or a trainer that, that you deal with on a weekly basis. I think that’s important.
[01:49:40] And we, I think a lot of us feel overwhelmed that there’s so much coming at us and you get stuck in this hamster wheel that you look back,
[01:49:51] whether it’s the last hour, the last day, the last week, and you’re like, did I really accomplish anything?
[01:49:56] And you got, You’ve got to say, okay, let’s get rid of as much noise as possible, which is impossible, by the way,
[01:50:05] to. To get rid of all of it. But you gotta reflect on, okay, what is rewarding to me,
[01:50:13] how can I help myself so I could benefit that of my partners and businesses,
[01:50:19] whether it’s from a physical standpoint or mental.
[01:50:22] Because being a father,
[01:50:24] being a husband,
[01:50:26] being an entrepreneur,
[01:50:27] like, I feel like I’m six CEOs at once. And then when I come home, there’s no time to,
[01:50:32] like my father and your father had, where it’s like,
[01:50:35] don’t bother me, give me a pipe and leave me alone. You know, it’s like,
[01:50:41] right, right. They had the separation throughout the day. You couldn’t get a hold of dad unless he was next to a corded phone.
[01:50:49] Where today it’s like, you’re a dad at all times, you’re a husband at all times, you’re a entrepreneur at all times. You’re.
[01:50:55] You know, it’s like it could become overwhelming and if you don’t take care of yourself,
[01:51:01] you can burn out every other week.
[01:51:03] Kevin Choquette: Yeah,
[01:51:04] but I also hear signal, but noise ratio, right? Like, what is it in the world that you deem to be, I’ll use the word sacred or meaningful,
[01:51:13] whether that’s relationships across friends and family,
[01:51:17] across your community,
[01:51:18] with the people in business with whom you have respect and some sort of affinity. And what’s noise, right. Is it the social media Is it the political ramblings of your local or national politicians?
[01:51:30] Like what. What are the things that,
[01:51:33] you know, there’s. There’s more than enough noise. There’s a lifetime and many multiples more of noise out there. Yeah, we’re all inundated.
[01:51:41] Tony Yousif: Yeah, I. I saw through.
[01:51:44] I guess I reflected on watching my father throughout the years where he would be very connected to not only cnn, but he would watch Al Jazeera and then BBC. He would see no, you know, news,
[01:51:59] and he would be inundated with problems that he couldn’t solve. And he allowed that because he and I are highly empathetic. I got his blessing and his curse, you know, being able to connect with people very easily, but also their problems become mine.
[01:52:15] And, you know, I started seeing the weight of the world taking a toll on my father.
[01:52:23] And I said, you know what? I need to,
[01:52:26] I guess, fast from,
[01:52:27] you know, media and people.
[01:52:30] People are judgmental of me saying, how are you getting your information? And I said, look, I’m going to get whatever is important through other contacts and other means.
[01:52:39] But I try to do what I can to stay genuinely happy and not like a smiley glad hand happy. Right.
[01:52:48] A lot of us act happy, but are you actually genuinely happy? And I think,
[01:52:53] you know, by surrounding myself with family, I’m blessed with the fact that we have over,
[01:52:58] you know, 30 households of family that live within three miles of us. And this is actual family being this big Catholic contingent, right.
[01:53:06] Our Easters and our Christmas Eves are surrounded by 90 loved individuals.
[01:53:12] And we make sure to spend time with family that love us and appreciate us and friends that love us and appreciate us. And,
[01:53:20] you know, we give each and every one of those individuals as much as we can and hope that they also,
[01:53:27] you know,
[01:53:28] do the same.
[01:53:30] And,
[01:53:31] you know, I think. I think I try my best to get rid of material things and not reflect on what’s the nicest watch I can get or the nicest car or,
[01:53:41] you know, get caught up in that world.
[01:53:44] Because I think it in the end and luckily I’ve had. I’ve had mentors. The consistent theme,
[01:53:51] that of regret with any mentor is that they focused on the wrong things and they didn’t spend enough time with family.
[01:53:59] And luckily for me, I’ve been able to. That resonates with me.
[01:54:04] And although I still don’t get to spend as much time as I want with my family, I do what I can to make that happen.
[01:54:12] And when I am with them, I try not to be connected to the phone.
[01:54:17] And again, I fail. I mean, we all do, right? But I try my best.
[01:54:21] So.
[01:54:22] Yeah, it’s just,
[01:54:24] I don’t know, it’s, it’s, it’s.
[01:54:26] I just try to be like,
[01:54:29] focus on the relationships that are most rewarding, you know?
[01:54:34] Kevin Choquette: Yeah, I hear you,
[01:54:35] Tony. You’ve been super generous with your time. I’m going to give you the mic for closing comment.
[01:54:41] Listeners, thank you for listening.
[01:54:44] My production guys tell me, you know, like the, the podcast, review the podcast or follow the podcast if you like what you’re hearing.
[01:54:53] But Tony, message to entrepreneurs or anything you want to say, you’ve been on a hell of a journey, you’ve had a lot of success,
[01:55:00] but I’ll give you the mic and, and thank you again for taking all the time. I really appreciate it.
[01:55:05] Tony Yousif: Yeah, thanks, Kevin. Thank you for inviting me to do this.
[01:55:10] Generally, don’t like to do,
[01:55:12] you know, outward facing things, but I thought this was a cool concept,
[01:55:17] so congrats on your success.
[01:55:19] For me, it’s just,
[01:55:20] I don’t know, patience, perseverance, don’t give up.
[01:55:24] But really try to find and reflect and appreciate those who are trying to support you.
[01:55:30] I know there are people that constantly are down on themselves and saying, oh, nobody is doing,
[01:55:36] you know, anything to help, etc. Take, take a, take a moment to really reflect. You’re going to try to, you’re, you’re going to find that there are people that really want to see you succeed and do what you can to nurture that relationship and show them that you appreciate them,
[01:55:53] even if it’s not for any reason.
[01:55:57] Just randomly call on somebody that you haven’t talked to in several years and just say to them that you were thinking of them.
[01:56:03] People,
[01:56:04] you know,
[01:56:05] really appreciate that and they’ll, they’ll, they’ll do what they can in their power to help you succeed and support you. So, you know, to the entrepreneurs, don’t give up. It’s a, it’s a tough, competitive world out there, more than it’s ever been.
[01:56:22] And I don’t know if AI is taking your job, but, you know, it’s like just, just,
[01:56:26] just,
[01:56:27] just stay a step ahead of the computers and show people that you bring something unique and of value that no one else can or does.
[01:56:38] Kevin Choquette: I don’t know if any of us know if AI is taking our jobs, but I’ll tell you the one thing that the machines won’t take, and it’s what you’ve just been speaking about for coming up on two hours here, it’s the relationships if there’s any one direction to go in the face of AI,
[01:56:53] it’s more people, more relationship, because that’s the domain of just the humans.
[01:56:58] Tony Yousif: Yep. Absolutely. Agreed.
[01:57:00] Kevin Choquette: Right. Right on. Thanks, Tony.
[01:57:02] Tony Yousif: Thank you, Kevin. Take care. Yeah.
